Episode 6

Published on:

2nd Nov 2023

Running a Business without it Taking Over your Life with Claire Taylor

Claire chats with Tazmin about how you can run your business without it taking over and ruling your life. They also chat about why people are drawn to start their own businesses, common pitfalls and strategies to navigate these.

About Claire:

Claire Taylor co-founded her Digital Marketing Agency in 2007. She has helped countless clients achieve online growth and success in what is often a crowded and competitive space. Claire loves business but also love to spend time out in the countryside running or hiking with her dog Darcy. You can connect with Claire via her Agency website TU Marketing, LinkedIn or Twitter

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Tazmin 0:06

marketing agency way back in:

Speaker 2 2:08

you? Yeah, great. And thank you for asking me to come on. I'm looking forward to this.

Tazmin 2:14

I'm looking forward to it too, as well, because your talk touched on a lot of topics. But they really hit home. And I'm hoping that, like I said, I've already taken action off the back of it. But it though, this is based around those people who have businesses, it can also the advice I'm sure you'll be giving will be helping those people who are in a work environment as well in terms of time management, and things like that. But if we focus a little bit on those people in the SEO world who have started their own businesses, or indeed why to digital world, why do you think so many people are starting their own businesses these days,

Speaker 2 3:03

I think it comes down to freedom, I think people just want to have a little bit more control over their time. And to enable them to have freedom over how they spend that time as well. And it's very difficult to do when you're working for somebody else. So that was definitely the driver for me, when I started my business was just being able to, you know, have time with the family be at the school play for the kids and all that kind of stuff. And, and yeah, just to get that freedom.

Tazmin 3:34

So when you started, was there such a culture, because you go online now, and there are numerous people telling you start your own business. And within six months, you'll be earning this much money and having you know, sitting on a yacht, or on a beach and it does paint a certain picture which you and I know, it's not always a reality, what was the culture like then

Speaker 2 4:00

probably a bit less, a bit less kind of in your face. Maybe because social media wasn't really that popular, then it was kind of just starting, and certainly in the SEO industry. And I mean, most of the people we were speaking to didn't even know what it was at the time. So you know, it was quite early days from that perspective. And so I wasn't really aware of that whole, you know, get get rich quick kind of set up your business, do these three things, and you'll be sat on a beach sipping a cocktail in two months. I've definitely seen that increase over time. And it actually is one of the things that frustrates me most really about, especially social media, but the online world generally is this whole belief that you you don't really need to work very hard to create success. I think you can. Once you've got there, there are definitely things you can do to allow yourself you know that work life balance and that's really what I'm all about. But I also don't believe that you, you know, you only have to kind of put half hearted effort in and you're going to have a massively successful business. I just don't think that's the case.

Tazmin 5:10

So you, you mentioned, one of the main reasons people go into sorting their own business is freedom. Can you talk a little bit about what that means? Because when you're working for someone else, obviously, you've got the time restrictions. But then there's also how you want your career to shape out type of freedom.

Speaker 2 5:33

Yes, of course, because I think freedom means lots of different things to lots of different people. But it's an overriding kind of word that comes out when I speak to people about what they really what do you really want out of your life. And freedom is the one that comes up and not. And not only in terms of time, like you mentioned there. But also, you know, having the financial freedom to be able to do the stuff that you really enjoy, being able to experiment in what you're doing with your business or your career to try different things. Because not everything's gonna work out. And actually, that's okay. And you can't really do that when you're working for somebody else. Because it's not, you know, it's not only your own business, that your you're risking, it's somebody else's, you can't really do that in the same way. So I think freedom means can mean lots of different things for different people. But ultimately, it is about just having that choice over, over what you do, and being in control of your own life and where you want to go with it, and what you want to do in the future. And I think that's really the key driver, but certainly for lots of people that I speak to.

Tazmin 6:38

And I guess more and more now, geographical freedom as well, comes more into play. So I was sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 6:49

Sorry, gone, I was just gonna say I live in, I live in Spain now. And I will, I wouldn't have been able to do that had I not, you know, changed the way that I ran my business, all of my team will now work remotely prior to that, and I still do this. Now, as you know, travel is something that I love to do. And so for me, travelling is a big, you know, passion. And I can do that now, but I couldn't have done it technology's definitely helped. Also, the way in which I've been able to set my business up and run my business has allowed me to be able to say, actually, I'm gonna go and travel for the next few weeks and know that I can do that. And that's not going to cause a massive amount of stress on me from a business perspective, but also on my family, because it's also if you're travelling with other people, the impact that it has on them, because you can't, you can't just be like, you know, we're going to go, so you're gonna go on a two week holiday with your family, you can't then just leave them to it and disappear off from work the whole time. That's, that's not really fair on them or you so so that's really important from a, you know, Freedom perspective, again, talking about freedom a lot here, but but it's very, it's a very valid it's a very valid goal for a lot of people,

Tazmin 8:04

you know, and it rings true to me. I can vouch as well, that there is climate freedom. I'm sitting in Milton Keynes wearing a jumper and Claire is in asleep. So there is the benefits as well. I think one of the reasons I started so dabbled in business before, but this time around, it was I was in my early 50s. And there is a real concern about ageism when you try and get a job in your 50s and early 60s, and it can prove difficult. I've got lots of friends and family who have found getting back to work tough, was this way, I thought, I'm employing myself. So I hopefully won't be sacking myself. I can have that freedom to work for as long as I want. And it fits around topics that I love talking about writing about and work that matters. And there is no real need to retire if I so choose. That freedom this way.

Unknown Speaker 9:08

Yeah, no, I think that's great.

Tazmin 9:11

And I think one of the things that hit home was somebody in our family you know, there are instances of dementia and Alzheimer's and your told you that the more you can keep your mind active, I sort of hold that this is a good way to keep my mind active, I'll always have to learn new things.

Speaker 2 9:31

Yeah, and I do think people are changing their mindset around, you know, working for X number of years and then retiring and doing nothing. I think actually for me, it's been very important that I've had a mixture of doing the fun stuff and working and I can't see there being an end to that. That's kind of you know, I'm sure at some point I will slow down and I'll do less. But I for me it's just about creating a life that involves, you know, the work stuff, the business stuff, but also lots of fun stuff at the same time while I can as well, because what I don't want to do is get to an age where suddenly I'm like, Oh, I can retire now. But I can't do the things that I wanted to do when I was younger, because I'm not able to do them anymore. So yeah, so I think having that balance between the two is, is really important.


No, no, that makes complete sense. All right, so somebody has decided that they're going to start their own business because of the freedom, all sorts of different types that we've just talked about. And they're ready to jump in? What advice would you give? So there's two parts of the question one, do you have advice for people on what sort of business because one of the things I did was I used to, I still can cook, I enjoy cooking, and someone said, Oh, Tazmin, I'll pay you for it. And within no time at all, I was setting up my own catering business, without thinking too much about it. And that lasted 18 months, and I discovered it wasn't for me, it was the wrong choice. So that was one question. How do people choose? And also then what are the pitfalls? What are the struggles in owning your own business?


Wow, that's a lot. Okay, so in terms of what to do, I think, I think you hear this a lot when people say, you know, what is it you love to do? You should do that for your business? I don't necessarily agree. Because I think for some things, so for example, you know, you mentioned out there that I like to run and I do I love running. But if I turned that into a business in some way, then that wouldn't that would take the enjoyment out of it a little bit for me, because, you know, that's what I do, for pleasure outside of work. So So I think when you're thinking about what to do, look at, yes, you need to enjoy what you're doing. You need to really have. And when I say mission, I don't mean necessarily, I'm going to change the world. I just mean you need to have a reason for doing it, what is it you're trying to achieve, because once you know who you're trying to help and how you how you can help them, then you can kind of work out what what you do. That makes sense what you physically do all day. And so for me going into the SEO world, it was really about helping see clients achieve their goals, helping them generate leads, and SEO is just the conduit for that. It's not that I sort of sat down and said I want to be an SEO, it was you know, I wanted to help these businesses to to make the most of the internet and see what they could do online. So I think, think about and also you know your skill set what you enjoy doing who you want to help, and then you can work out how you're going to help them. I think they're the main things in terms of what to do. In terms of pitfalls, be realistic about how tough it's going to be in the outs on the outset, you're going to have to work really hard to start with, and you're probably going to have to work a lot of hours. Because it takes time. So be prepared for the first year or two. To ensure you have from a financial point of view, you have that money sat there that so you're not kind of in this in this place where you've been in desperation that you need to get clients on board because if you don't, you can't pay the bills, that's a really difficult place to be. And that comes across actually when you're talking to other businesses or talking to potential clients. So that's the first thing is make sure financially you know, you can afford to do this for a period of time. You could do it alongside your current job if that's what you wanted to do. But again, you need to be prepared that you're gonna have to put put the hours in upfront it's not easy. And also you need to you need to kind of expand your skill range out because when you first start out there is no IT department or there is no someone to help you with HR. So you need to learn a lot yourself. But also then also build your network up so that you do have other business owners to talk to you do have people with different expertise that where you can just go and grab a coffee and you can help them with something and they can help you with something because it can be a really really lonely place otherwise like about 15 billion things in two minutes but


you know a lot of what you said just resonates so much that you almost you obviously need to have your those financial targets now that can change but you need to start off with something otherwise you've got nothing to aim for. But in a way not need that money. I agree completely with what you just said not need that money because it doesn't come the way you want it to. It doesn't come often from what Are you thought it would come you have to be really fluid about? And equally? Lots of things?


Sorry? Because I think about the fact that that is your business, not you. I think that's a really important thing is to separate yourself from the business. Because if you don't, it becomes very difficult to grow.


Yeah. Yeah. And to keep on being knocked back, because they will be knocked back. So we'll be, you'll think you've got the brilliant list of ideas. And you know, why doesn't everybody want it for themselves in their, you know, next door neighbour, but it takes time for that reputation to grow and for you to grow? Yeah. Yep. So, so we've got the hard work, you said the financial side of it. constantly having to learn is something I mean, somebody, some people would say, that is a good thing, because you know, using your mind and that it can be lonely, and it was good that you mentioned find other business owners that will help you with with that, because they'll they'll be able to share some things. The I think, I think those are things that you even touched on, during the talk fact that time management and all of that we'll talk a little bit more about what people can do after the break. But this isn't to paint a doom and gloom picture of it, you and I both seem to be enjoying the fact that this is where we are.


Yeah, I think it's just being realistic about the early days, once you become more established, and you get to the point where you can grow and bring, not necessarily bring out, I'm a great believer that you should have at least one person working with you, to support you. And, and I talked about that, you know, right in SEO around, if you've got administrative tasks, or bookkeeping, or social media scheduling, or all those kinds of things that you could hand over to somebody else quite easily, then as soon as you get to the position where you can do that I'm a strong believer, you should, because that frees up your time to do the more important stuff and work on your business. So yeah, I mean, it's great when you get there, it takes time in the beginning, some people get there more quickly than others. But it is changing your mindset from, as I said, being your business to running a business. And that's when the big shift comes. And at that point, that's when you can start to create a lot more freedom. In your day, day to day where you don't have to be, you don't have to feel like you have to be at the end of the phone 24/7 or email these days, no one brings anyone anymore to that getting to that stage I think is a big a big shift, where you see yourself separate from your business,


which which of those pitfalls hurt you the most or impacted you the most? Oh, gosh,


actually, it was it was probably a different one too than it was when we first took our first person on when we first employed somebody. Because my expectations about what that person would be able to do were way too high, not in terms of them, because they were a great asset to the company when they joined us. But actually, at the time, I needed someone to do, you know, some creative work and to do some, like administrative work and project manage this thing over here and so many different types of skills. And actually, you can't get that in one person. And I didn't understand that at the time. So we took somebody on with a with a role that they would never going to be able to fulfil. So that was probably our biggest mistake. Because we then had to find them a role because I wasn't gonna, that was down to me, I had to then create the role for them, which didn't really exist. And we still then had all the other stuff. And we couldn't afford to take anybody else on at that stage. So that's probably the biggest mistake that we made.


And, you know, if you've been working for different organs for an organisation hiring skills are not something that you're going to be clued on about.


No, no. And you know, it's accepting that somebody that you bring in is not going to be the same as you. They don't you know, regardless of how loyal they are to your business, then they don't care about it in the same way you do. So it's when you come to understand that it gets a lot easier, but I just had no idea in the early days.


Yeah, no. It brings me back to somebody that I hired at the cookery when I was running my catering business. And I think I was so lonely, that I hired the first person that came through and they weren't skilled in the way I needed them to be skills. I just like you said the loneliness can get to you. Gosh, we've covered lots and we've we've not even been told Looking for like 20 minutes. So we're gonna take a short break now. And then after the break be good if we can talk about things that people can do to alleviate some of those pitfalls when we've touched on some of them now, but maybe go into things that you mentioned during your talk at Brighton. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to us having a big talk with them with Claire about starting businesses, the pitfalls, and we've covered lots in the first half coverage, loneliness and time management and hiring and the financial side of it. So right at the beginning, we talked about the great reasons why you would start a business and that being freedom. And then we went on to what could sound like quite a doom and gloom picture of it. What are the ways that people can navigate that journey?


I think the first thing that I think is really important for businesses to have, regardless of how big or small you are, is your strategy. And small businesses are really bad at putting a strategy in place. And your strategy is really, you know, your roadmap, if you like you know, why you exist, who you're helping what you do, what your goals are, and how you're going to get there. And if you don't have that, it's really easy to just drift. And you never really get anywhere, or you never really grow. And you don't really know where you're going in the first place. So I think that's the first thing that I would say every business should have in place, we've got it and it feels silly, right? If you're working, if you're on your own, you're writing out your strategy, it can feel a bit silly, but once you've done it, and then and then you know what you need to do to get there because you can then work backwards and think like, if this is what my goals are, this is how I need. This is how I'm where I need to be in six months, three months, two months, and you can work back then. So that you can see what you need to do on a day to day basis to get towards those goals. Otherwise, you're just kind of drifting drifting along. That's the first thing I'd say. The second thing is to make sure that you have systems in place. And again, this can feel a bit silly if you're on your own because you everything you know, is in your head. But until you get out of your head, and documented in some way, whether that's written out somewhere using loom loom loom is really good for systems because you can show people how to do stuff as well. But I think once you have that in place, it then enables you to grow much more easily because anyone coming into your business can find out exactly what how you do everything in your business already. And so it's easier for them to pick anything up. And it enables you to not have to have everything in your head all the time, which can get too much right and then you forget stuff. And then you might do something slightly differently than you did it last time. And then your client might be confused, because it's not what they're expecting from you. So yes, definitely the first the first few things strategy and systems, I think the most important things.


I 100% agree with you on that. And I want sat outside the barbers when my husband was having a haircut, scribbling what I consider my first strategy on it in an exercise book, but and it changed a strategy changes, but I find that I have to revisit it more than if, for example, I was working at a big organisation where things have bedded in, they know their staff, whereas I was learning a lot I didn't even know would be possible podcast. So that changed things slightly. And but it's a good refresher as well, just to keep you on track all the time. And


how often do you refer to it now? Do you think less than


I? Well? I suppose things are changing quite a lot. So for example, I didn't think I would do corporate training. And that's becoming more part of it. So let's take a step back and say, Where does this fit in? Is this still me being true to myself? Am I talking about things that are important to me? Can I add value to those people? And because I certainly don't want to be a big organisation. I don't want to have lots of employees. I don't want to grow that much. I'm quite happy to be on my own with a few people helping, then it's taking a step back saying what's the return on investment for my time here? Does it match what I want my lifestyle to be like? So it's those sorts of things. Does that make sense?


Yeah, no perfect sense. Perfect sense. I'm sure many people don't so many people don't do it. So you know, you're way, way ahead.


Well, again, that was after Brighton. That was the other thing I can do is take a step back thinking, okay, strategy, let's, let's put this in place. But the procedure thing that use mentioned, people may think it's just for a big company. But even I would say, even on the podcasts that Sarah and I do together, I'm now feeling that actually, we need to put, for example, when we invite guests, some templates, Sarah is good at that as well. And so we are working uniformly, because she's different to me, I'm different to her. And if we did hire someone to do a little bit of work for us, all of those procedures are already in place. So that's, it just saves time, keeps things uniform. So that's a really good tip.


It's really good as well, from an emotional standpoint. So for example, if you have, like, you know, a system in place for dealing with complaints, it takes the emotion out of it, because you know, that it's dealt with in a certain way. So whatever your relationship is with that person, because I don't know about you, but I actually, you know, I work quite closely with my clients, and we have quite strong relationships. So if there was ever a situation where there was a complaint about anything, I know that I can refer to my system that I have, because it's everybody's treated the same regardless. And therefore it takes the emotion away from it. And that can be quite difficult, especially for small businesses, because it's, it feels very personal. So I think systems are very useful in lots of different ways.


Yeah. And just want to navigate the conversation slightly to those people listening who don't have their own businesses, and not even thinking, How is this strategy thing important to me? I would urge people to think of themselves as entrepreneurs, even if they're working in corporations, in terms of their own career progression, think of yourself as a business owner, what is it that you want to be doing? Who do you want to be serving have some direction in your career? Otherwise, what happens is your manager will sit you down and say, These are the company goals. These are things I want you to learn, go off and do it. I'm not saying you shouldn't do those things. But if you have some idea of you know, I'd like to be presenting more, or I'd like to be researching more, you can at least put that on the table and see how that fits in.


Yeah, absolutely. You have your own kind of personal strategy. Yeah. I think that's great. Yeah, I think everyone should, everyone should have an idea of what what they want their life to look like. And that can feel, especially if you're young, like I'm a bit older, I'm in my 40s. Now, but you know, when you're starting out, it can feel a bit kind of, like, well, I don't know what I want to be doing in 20 years. But even if you're doing it for the next few years, just so you get an idea of where you want to be heading, that can be really useful to help keep you on track, because it's easy to get carried away with what's happening around you and forget what it is that you actually want to be focused on. Yeah, so no, I think that's a great idea.


So we've gone through lots of things that people can do to navigate those pitfalls, but what about your mindset on things like that? Because that's, that's key, isn't it?


Yeah, I think it is, it is that how, you know, see, like, CEO mindset sounds like a bit of a cliche, and I suppose it is, but it's, it's so true, is having that mindset that you are running the business, that you are not the business, and getting to the stage where actually if you step away from it, it's still going to actually run day to day without you there. And that's really where you need to be getting to. And that takes a lot of work for some people, because as business owners, when we start out on our own, we want to be in the thick of it, we want to be there doing everything for our clients, we want to be at the end, you know, we want to be very reactive when they get in touch with us and we don't know how to set proper boundaries and all this kind of stuff. That unless you you kind of focus on the fact that you are the business owner, instead of being the business that makes sense. You it's really difficult to grow properly and to and to move that business forward because you don't want to let go of anything. You want to do it all yourself because you know, you're you think that you can do it better than anybody else because you care the most. It's not your baby, your business is not your baby. Your business is an organisation and you're the one running it. And it's it's really it's really that shift that makes a difference, I believe in the success of a business.


Oh, that pierced my heart. Sorry. Because I think that's that's a really hard one. Yeah, I have I'm rubbish at boundary setting is something I really need to get better at, especially with my one to one clients, they'll ask me, uh, you know, how often can we do we have one, two ones. So you know this often? And then I'm thinking yeah, but if you ever need me, you know Maria, yeah, I don't want you to be stuck with this thing I keep on saying I don't want you to be stuck, just message me even if I can Yeah, I'll get you get a voice note to you so that you can move forward with that thing. And I think with my one to one clients, that's a really hard thing to do.


I mean, if he, I think there are, there are different levels around boundaries. So if someone's paying for one to one support, and they're paying you a premium for that, and you've agreed with them what those boundaries are upfront, then that's one thing, I'm not saying you shouldn't ever reply out of hours or anything, you know, if one of our clients websites went down, we wouldn't just say, oh, sorry, I have to wait till two o'clock on Tuesday, when I'm due to do my client communication, you know, we there are instances where we have to react, but it's about setting boundaries that work for you. And then making sure you stick to them wherever they are. So if you know that your one to one clients, they're gonna get support, whenever you've agreed that with them. So you might say, wait, you can contact me any evening, I will get back to you. But you know, within X number of hours, or whatever it is, as long as you're happy with that, and they know what that looks like, then that's absolutely fine. It's when people start pushing that and pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. And then the expectation is that you're going to be replying outside of those boundaries that you've set, I think that's when you can get into to problems. It can be very draining,


you know, I do hear what you're saying, I think I'm a way of being be able to one thing that has helped my helped me shift, my mindset shift has been being optimistic. Now, I'm generally an optimistic person. But when you've had a knock back here, and you think I didn't handle I can carry on with this. If you wake up when I was waking up not so long ago, every morning, feeling quite drained. And quite like I was going into battle every day. And I had to remind myself of all the things that the business was giving me and almost stop thinking higher than I was feeling first thing. And reminding myself it's another day, it's another opportunity, another chance to learn how to do things in a way that will work. And how important do you think things like optimism are,


are really important. And actually what you said there about starting off the mornings that way I think is critical because and I know again, you know the whole morning routine cliche, but I really believe it's it works. So if you start your day feeling quite low, it's going to carry through your whole day. Whereas if you do something that makes you feel good, whether that's you know, sitting in the peace and quiet having a coffee in the morning or you know, going for a walk or whatever it is that lights you up just for a short period of time, that then helps carry you through into the day and helps you feel a little bit more prepared. And, you know, fit trying to force yourself even to feel optimism when when it's not there naturally. I think it can really help. Otherwise your whole days, like you're just getting through the day, just get to the end of the day, you know, yeah, not a good place to be. No.


And you know, the people that you talk to, like you mentioned earlier that when you are operating in that scarcity zone, your clients will feel it people will feel it. When you're working with that negative energy. People again will feel bad.


Yeah, yeah, I think so. And also, you don't always necessarily attract the right clients to you then either. Yeah. And I don't mean that in a woowoo manifestation kind of way. But I mean it in a, you know, when you're talking to people talking to prospects, if you can be honest and open with them, then I think that that relationship that's so important is then built on Honesty and trust. Whereas if you're saying things to them, because you're desperate because you need that income, then you're you're not necessarily taking the right clients on board anyway, you might end up working with people and I've done this before you end up working with somebody and then short while later it's like this is wrong. This is not good. This is not a good relationship. You know, they're, they're a great person. They have a great business. but we're just not a very good match. And trying to avoid that, I think it's quite important because it's not a nice thing to go through. When you're not aligned,


no, and you end up doing more harm than good to both of you. So there's way back when some when I heard someone saying that I thought about starting a business just have to go for it. But I definitely feel you're saying that.


Yeah, and it's hard in the early days, because you don't, you know, like, oh, we need to get people on board, you know, the income levels, not there. And we ended up in a position where we were working with somebody, and I, you know, it was one of those situations where they weren't being horrible or nasty, or anything, but they were very demanding. And they were demanding of us things that we hadn't agreed upfront. And we were kind of, oh, maybe we can do this. And then you know, it was the whole waking up in the middle of the night worrying about it, dreading getting an email from them, or a phone call from them. And it just made life miserable. And so in the end, we just ended up sacking, sacking them to say, well, that's sorry, I don't think we can work together anymore. And you know what, it was one of the scariest things I've done. But the moment it was over, there was this massive feeling of relief, because I just knew it wasn't, it wasn't right for them or us. Yeah, sometimes you have to do stuff that is a bit scary.


Again, mindset. It's just possible, isn't it? Oh, I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface of this topic. Clear. There's so much to it. It is a big topic. Maybe we have another chat. On, bring you back on again, because there's so many things that I want to ask you. But definitely, it's been really, really valuable. What what one key takeaway would you want to give people from this episode?


I think the key thing is that, you know, this is about you in your life, really? And what do you what do you really want to be doing with your life? How do you really want to spend your days? Do you really want to spend like, you know, 1012 hours a day, so sit at your desk, if that's what you love doing? Great. That's, you know, that's good for you. But most people don't want to do that most people want to do other things as well. So I think the key is to work out what it is you really want to do, how you want to spend your time, because then you can start putting things in place to get you there.


That's a brilliant thing. No. And as I agree with you, what's the best career give advice you've ever received?


The best career advice. I think this was one of those and I don't even know where it came from. But it was, it's a quote from someone very famous, I'm sure. And it was if you're going to do something that scares you, or you're uncomfortable about is to ask yourself, What's the worst thing that can happen? And then when you thought about what the worst thing is, that can happen, you can then mitigate for that eventuality. And then actually, it doesn't seem too bad anymore. I think that's probably the best advice I've had. And I still can't remember who quoted it. But


I received something similar there is this a an organisation called Minecraft International, they have a course called The Winning Edge. They were running that course with migrant organisation. And that's what he said. And he, he's told you to visualise yourself walking on a ladder. And really, how far was that that ladder going to you? What's What was the drop? That's how he got you to visualise what's the worst that can happen. And that that really helps because it enables you to take risks that previously you might not have taken. That's really good one. So we also ask our guests to take this opportunity to give a shout out to somebody in the industry that's doing some really good work. Who comes to mind for you?


You know, what I have only this year started getting involved in the SEO community. So I don't really know that many people so I'd have to say you my darling because I love I love what you're bringing into it because it's so there's this whole kind of hustle. I don't even like that phrase either hustle culture and SEO because there's always more to do doesn't matter what website you're working on. It's always more to do and actually what you're doing in bringing in a different take on it all and thinking about it from a holistic viewpoint and how we need to look after ourselves as well. I think that's really important work so so ya know, kudos to you by what you're doing.


Thank you. And you know, I honestly believe it because if you're not looking after yourself, and you mentioned morning routine morning routine To conscious up, you know, hustle, and CEOs and entrepreneurs getting up at like three o'clock in the morning, running around in the rain. But there was one book called The Morning miracle. I'm not sure if you've read it. And the thing about it, yeah. So if you look at savers, what it's telling you to do is, it's nurturing your mind. It's nurturing your body, and it's nurturing your spirit. And that's what self care tells you to do. So self care seems to have this culture around being quite fluffy and quiet, you know, go for a spa day, whereas morning routine is all go out there and get it, but it's doing the same thing. And if you're not looking after yourself, you're not, you certainly aren't working at full capacity. And what is it that you're telling yourself that you're worse, as well? Because that's key, isn't it in doing anything, if you don't believe you're worth it, then you're only going to go for things that you believe that you can afford, not just financially, but spiritually, intellectually. And when you look after yourself, you're telling yourself, actually, I am worth that time, money investment in me, and you're going to then be able to do far more than if you hustle your way there.


Yeah, that's why I think it's so important because it's not something I've seen before. And I said, I'm new to the like, a noob. To the to getting to know other people in the industry. Obviously, I've been doing SEO for a long time. But I just think that's great, because it's it's something that's not talked about enough.


I'll keep talking, somebody told me to rebrand myself as anti tos. So


you could have a little column you could have, like any column on them in LinkedIn or something.


Yeah, it says, What should I do? All right, I'll have to go look at my strategy. Oh, thank you so much. Alright, so I'm just gonna do a little bit of wrap up and then we'll say goodbye. It's a reminder to everyone that if you're enjoying what Sara and I doing, ways that you can support us are the buy me a coffee link, which is on the website, and signing up to our newsletter. Again, the link is on our website. Claire, thank you so much for this. It's been so much fun. And like I said, I don't feel like we've really scratched the surface. So I think we may have another conversation. Further on.


Sounds great. Thank you for asking me on. It's been good. Yeah, it's been good fun. Enjoyed it.


Take care and everyone bye for now!

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About the Podcast

The SEO Mindset Podcast
Personal growth tips to help you to optimise your SEO career and not just the algorithms!
The SEO Mindset is a weekly podcast that gives you actionable, personal growth and development tips, guidance and advice, to help you to optimise your SEO career and not just the algorithms.

The podcast is dedicated to talking about important topics that aren't often spoken about in the industry such as imposter syndrome, burnout, anxiety, self awareness etc. Sarah and Tazmin, along with their special guests highlight important topics, share own experiences as well as giving actionable solutions. Basically we have open, honest and frank conversations to help others in the industry.

Each week we cover topics specific to careers in the SEO industry but also broader topics. We will help you to not only build your inner confidence but to also thrive in your career.

Your hosts are Mindset Coach Tazmin Suleman and SEO Manager Sarah McDowell, who between them have over 20 years experience working in the industry.
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About your hosts

Sarah McDowell

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I've been in Digital Marketing and Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) for around 10 years, currently working as the SEO Manager at Captivate (part of Global), the world's only growth-orientated podcast host. I am a self-confessed SEO nerd (I find the industry fascinated and love learning how search engines like Google work) and a bit of a podcast addict (with this being the fourth podcast I have hosted). I am also a speaker and trainer. I hope you enjoy this podcast!

Tazmin Suleman

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I am a Life Coach, helping people grow and thrive, however my background has included careers in Development, Data Integrity and SEO. Through coaching, mentoring and teaching I help people build happier more fulfilling professional and personal lives by changing their mindset and habits. I teach courses on these topics and have incorporated a lot of the teachings in this podcast. I hope you find it useful.