Key Differences Between a Coach & Mentor

Sarah: 00:00:06

Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for joining myself and Tazmin for yet another episode of the SEO Mindset podcast. You have us both this week and we are going to be talking about the differences between a coach and a mentor, because these terms are often switched around. However, there are very important differences between the two, and mentorship is actually something that we've already spoken about on this very podcast. So a couple of weeks ago, we invited Bonce to talk about this very subject. So if you enjoy this episode and you want to go and cheque that one out, I'll make sure there's a link to that episode in this episode, Show Notes. Before we get into the meeting topic, and before we get Tazmin involved as well, just want to let you know about all the different ways that you can support the podcast. So if you enjoy what me and Tazmin are doing, remember that we are on Buy Me A Coffee so you can give us a one off donation of five pound. So if you fancy doing that, you'll be able to find a link in the Show Notes. And you can also help us by spreading the word. The more people that are listening to us, the more guests we can get on and the more value we can deliver. So tell everyone, colleagues, friends, family, your pets, anyone and everyone who you think will be interested in this podcast, let them know. So the next time that you're listening to an episode, find the link and share it with them on WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger. Just yeah, spread the word and get as many people listening to the SEO Mindset. Hello, Tazmin.

Tazmin: 00:01:52

Hello, Sarah. It feels like ages since we've recorded together.

Sarah: 00:01:57

I know. I nearly forgot what your face looked like.

Tazmin: 00:02:04

I'm looking forward to this. Do you find that when it's us to recording, it just feels like a chat, but when you're interviewing someone, I feel a little bit more pressure because I want the experience to be really nice for them. But with us, it just feels really natural now.

Sarah: 00:02:24

Yeah. You kind of forget, don't you, that when you're having a chat like this that other people are listening. Sometimes. But yeah, because we've been doing this for over a year. Have we?

Tazmin: 00:02:38

Yeah.

Sarah: 00:02:38

Is it about a year?

Tazmin: 00:02:39

More than a year? I think we started March last year.

Sarah: 00:02:46

There you go. Yeah, but I agree. I always enjoy obviously it's great, isn't it? Interviewing lots of wonderful different guests. But I do enjoy it when it's just us, too, as well, because it's good to have a chitchat and delve into a subject and yeah, so I agree. You planned this episode, didn't you?

Tazmin: 00:03:12

I did. So way back when, when I discovered the world of coaching, there were very clear distinctions between coaching and mentoring. And I found over the last 1015 years that those lines are becoming more and more blurred and the two terms are being used interchangeably. So I wanted to do a session on the two terms and some sort of like I won't call them quite hybrid, but for purpose of descriptions, some hybrid models that are available as well because all of them coaching, mentoring. The hybrid models, they're really great for personal development, but they offer something different and it's so critical that the person understands what they are and what the benefits are and then picks the one that's best for them. So let's start with coaching. And there's so many definitions, but I'm going to use the ICF. So that's International Coaching Federation. They're the leading global organisation for coaches and they define coaching as this. I'm going to read it out. Coaching is partnering with clients in a thought provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximise their personal and professional potential. The process of coaching often unlocks previously untapped sources of imagination, productivity and leadership. Now, that's quite a wordy description, but one of the key things in it is the word partnership. The coach and the coachee are equal. There's not one higher than the other. And for me, what coaching the essence is, is that the coach gives the coachee space just to be there's a lot more listening in coaching than perhaps mentoring. So some key characteristics, like I said, it's partnership of two equals the coach doesn't have to be in the same field as the coachie.

Sarah: 00:05:33

Interesting.

Tazmin: 00:05:36

What they do is that they don't tell you the answers, they guide you. They guide you through some very powerful open ended questions. It's non judgmental. The coach isn't going to say to the coachee, oh, you should do it like this or like that. They will let the coachee find their idea of what rights and success looks like for them. They give you a lot of space to think. So coaches aren't scared of silence. And often, even when the coaches stop speaking, they will ask something like, tell me more, or that was really interesting. Explain that a bit further.

Sarah: 00:06:19

Okay.

Tazmin: 00:06:19

And it's really good for, I feel for Introverts who will say their thing and then they stop. And I find even when I was managing teams with Introverts, I would be comfortable with silence and then they would say another thing and another thing and another thing. And that's when you started getting to the real gold that was inside them.

Sarah: 00:06:45

That's really interesting because I think some people are uncomfortable with silence, aren't they? So it's interesting to I suppose to be a good coach, you kind of have to be okay and comfortable with that. Because, yeah, when you do have that silence, it gives the space then, doesn't it, for more to be said or more reflection.

Tazmin: 00:07:11

And this is something I'm going to talk a little bit about, accreditation versus not accreditation. But when you go through the process of accreditation, that's one of the thing they teach you to be okay with silence, to look at body language, what they're saying, what they're not saying, how they're saying it, being very aware of their emotions as they are saying it. So all of this tells you a huge amount rather than what they're actually just saying. A coach will help you understand yourself better. So we've talked about self reflection, understanding yourself, and it's a journey. And often when we are, especially if we do like career coaching and in careers you're just going from one thing to the next to the next to the next to the next without sitting back and thinking, okay, which path do I want to take? What's holding me back, what's not holding me back? Which opportunities am I not taking? So the coach will help you understand yourself better and what you want. And a big key difference for me is the coach will look at the person holistically. So somebody may come to me with oh, I want to progress my career, that's fine, we can work on that. But if I just concentrated on that element without taking any regard about the rest of their lives, they may have an action plan of ten things to do, five things to do, whatever, but it doesn't fit with their lifestyle, it doesn't fit with their value system. So the coach will spend time, their commitment is to the coachee, not to that particular thing. You look at them as an overall yes, and another key difference is the term. So usually the coaching term will be relatively short. So you could have a power hour with a coach, you could have three months with a coach, you could have up to twelve months with a coach. But at some point you'd have reached the goal, you'd have got what you wanted or got rid of what you didn't want. Because that's another reason people come to a coach and then that's the end of the relationship. That said as people evolve so I've had people come to me for life coaching. Once they are happy with their vision, then they want accountability. Coaching sometimes does evolve, but by and large they're short term.

Sarah: 00:10:04

And I suppose as well it would be quite organic, couldn't it? Because if you're working on one element or one side of your life or work or whatever it is, it will open up other areas that you might actually think, oh, that was really good, it helped me figure out this I now need to figure out this side of it, don't you?

Tazmin: 00:10:24

Yeah, absolutely. So I had somebody who high flyer wanted to achieve great things, but she wanted to define what that meant for her. So we went through period of time together and she had that mapped out. Now she was married to somebody who was also very ambitious and high flying and she said, could you do some couples sessions with us? And first I thought a, I'm not a counsellor that's outside my remit. But what they wanted was almost like a strategy session so that they could put their goals on the table, be aware of what each other were working on and build some habits to make sure that their marriage was they'd put enough effort into their marriage and time.

Sarah: 00:11:18

And I suppose as well, if there's two of you, it's good to have a coach there as like a mediator, I suppose. Not so much like referee, as it were, but just to facilitate and coach that space, isn't it? And making sure that the two people I can kind of see why having a coach when me and Tash, my partner, were talking about our goals, it would be good to have a coach in the background and I basically just.

Tazmin: 00:11:56

Asked some questions and then he said, oh, I don't thought of that. And then they would have some homework. So we had four sessions and then they went off and discussed how they were going to navigate that bit. Then they came back and said, okay, now we've got this, what next? And asked them some more questions and then they went away and did their homework. So it really was facilitating.

Sarah: 00:12:22

And you can kind of see how not just like a personal relationship, but professional relationships as well. Right. Like when you're goal setting or setting what you want to do with the business, that would be really helpful because if you've got someone asking questions that both of you or whoever is in that partnership isn't really thinking about, then yeah, it helps you really think about and plan efficiently then, doesn't it?

Tazmin: 00:12:51

Yeah. So I wanted to talk a little bit about accreditation. So coaching is an industry that you don't have to be an accredited coach to call yourself a coach. I've gone through the process and I always wanted to go through the process. For me, I was never going to just launch myself and say, I can do this. So what are the advantages of having someone accredited? Firstly, you know that they've spent some invested time and money on the process and if they weren't serious about it, passionate about it, and passionate and serious about making sure they are at a certain level, then they wouldn't have spent that time. Yes, you have to go through quite an extensive programme. So minimum 60 hours learning, minimum 100 hours of practise. So that teaches you so much. And you're learning in a group setting. I learned in a group setting. So you build relationships with fellow coaches and they're there for you to lean on if you're not sure about something or if they've learned something. Another advantage is that there are systems in place for ongoing development. So once a month I attend the peer coaching session, which is an observed one. So sometimes you'll be the coach and you've got a group of people watching or the coachee, or you're observing on its own. Another advantage is that the accreditation will have trained the individual, the coach, with certain methodologies, so it provides the conversation with structure rather than just a chat. And the structure is in place to say, okay, where are we now? What do you want to talk about? Even if your aim is for the coachee to have take a step forward, at least one step forward, and you ask those questions around the framework yeah. Another big advantage is that you're then adhering to a code of conduct. So certain things that I know that I have to be mindful of, which I wouldn't have been aware of had I not gone through the programme.

Sarah: 00:15:30

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Tazmin: 00:15:34

So that sums up coaching. Is there any questions you want to ask on that?

Sarah: 00:15:44

Just as we were chatting, it got me thinking about ways in which my personal and work life could definitely be approved by a coach. And, yeah, it's good to have that definition of knowing what you're signing up to as well, because now those people listen to this episode will be like, okay, this is what coaching is for, this is for me, this is what I need. But then I suppose after the break, we'll be talking about mentorship. So, yeah, people can hear the differences and see what it is that they need, whether it is a coach or whether it is a mentor. So, yeah, that was really helpful. Thank you. Cool. Wow. Should we take a short break, then? And when we come back, talk about the wonderfulness of mentorship.

Tazmin: 00:16:37

Absolutely.

Sarah: 00:16:38

Okay. We shall be back. We are back. Tazmin.

Tazmin: 00:16:45

Excellent. Excellent.

Sarah: 00:16:48

So let's delve into mentorship then.

Tazmin: 00:16:52

So, again, let's start with the definition. I liked this one because it was short and simple, unlike the coaching one, which was a bit convoluted. Mentoring is when someone shares their knowledge, skills and experience with another person to help them progress.

Sarah: 00:17:09

Okay.

Tazmin: 00:17:11

And some key elements of it. So generally the person will be more senior to you and in the same field, so that you'll see somebody who's doing really well in the industry and you may approach them. They may be part of the same organisation, they may put themselves forward, but generally they'll be in the same field or in the field that you want to get into. It's not an equal relationship. You're going to them because they've got the expertise that you want. So there is a bit of a hierarchy there. And whereas coaching will be about lots of questions, mentoring will be more about the telling, advising, suggesting, because what they're doing is that they're sharing their knowledge and that's what you've signed up for, it's what you wanted. They're sharing their knowledge and experience with you in order to help you grow.

Sarah: 00:18:12

Yeah.

Tazmin: 00:18:13

Now, there may be judgments. So whereas in coaching, it's non judgmental here, you may say, oh, I think my career would do really well if I went for that project and the mentor would be well within their right to say, I'm not sure if that's the right one for you. Do this one instead.

Sarah: 00:18:31

That's an interest because normally judgmental or judgments kind of has like a negative connotation. So I suppose this is really key for people to be aware of when you get into mentorship, that I suppose you don't want to scare people off by saying that you're going to be judged, it's going to be really judgmental. But it's more that if you have an idea or you have a way of how you want to achieve something, the mentor is going to give you alternative solutions if they don't feel like that is the right fit for you. I thought that was just important to.

Tazmin: 00:19:17

Bring up because I agree and you're going to them because they've reached somewhere that you want to reach. Yes, and they will have done it. And I think here's the thing, that there are more than one way to get to that point. They have taken a particular route and that's what they know. So they may say to you, oh, I think your career would fly if you posted on social media more, for example, now you as an individual may not want to do that or you may not have thought about that route. So it's not about judgement in a judge. What was the word you used?

Sarah: 00:20:03

Judgmental.

Tazmin: 00:20:04

Yeah. It is their opinion of what the right path is.

Sarah: 00:20:09

Okay. So there is a difference between judgmental and judgement. Okay.

Tazmin: 00:20:15

And usually these relationships are longer term. You wouldn't have a mentor for three months, for example. It could be for years that you have this particular person who is almost like a guide for you in your career. Now, one thing that a mentor may have or may not, and even if they have it, they may choose not to use it, is that they may not be coaching you on things like the personal development. For example, if they said, I think raising your profile be a really good idea, let's do some public speaking, which is a very good idea, somebody receiving that advice may struggle with that and then the mentor may or may not know how to help them through that growth in order for them to do that thing.

Sarah: 00:21:17

Okay, interesting. Yeah.

Tazmin: 00:21:21

And then are there any other parts of mentorship that you can add to that? Because those are the main key ones I thought of.

Sarah: 00:21:31

I mean, I think you've pretty much covered them all. Nothing really springs to mind. But I suppose yeah, the main thing is that I suppose the main difference that I'm drawing from both of them is coaching is more about the coach asking questions, understanding, giving you space, giving you time to think about things differently and all of this stuff. Whereas a mentor is a bit more structured. So if you'd ask like, how do I do this, what are the steps? And it's less about the mentor asking questions and understanding and giving you space to think yourself, it's more about telling you, I suppose, try this, try that. Or if you come up with an idea, they could be like, well, we did that. Didn't really have the desired effects, but we did this instead, I suppose. Yeah, it's obvious what the key sort of differences are.

Tazmin: 00:22:35

And then there are these hybrid models. So a lot of the time you'll see on the internet, especially for people who are looking to start a side hustle, the advice is think of something you can do now that you couldn't do two years ago and teach somebody who is two steps further down the path. So, for example, I'm an SEO manager who I'm happy being an SEO manager. I've only been one for a couple of years, so if you want to be one, I can help you down that path. Now, often these people call themselves coaches. Another example is a business coach or a social media coach. They may have been doing it for a couple of years. They're not like super, super expert, they've done it for a couple of years, learnt some stuff, valuable stuff, and say, you know what? I can teach you what I spent two years learning. I can teach you that in six months.

Sarah: 00:23:39

For example, we could do that about podcasting Tazmin.

Tazmin: 00:23:42

We could. Now, for me, the sticking point is when they call themselves a coach. And I can see why there's confusion, because if you think about a football coach, I'm pretty sure they don't stand on the pitch and say to the footballer, so how do you think you can kick the ball? Not going to do that. They're going to say, Kick it like this, or Try this. So this is where this grey area has been created and the two terms have been swapped around a little bit. Yeah, I feel that that's more mentorship rather than coaching.

Sarah: 00:24:23

So I suppose if you see any coaching or mentorship programme, it's good to have these kind of questions, isn't it? For example, if you're signing up to a mentorship programme, you could be like, this is how I envisage mentorship. Is this the structure? And then, isn't it about knowing what you're signing yourself up for?

Tazmin: 00:24:47

I suppose, 100%, yeah.

Sarah: 00:24:49

Because then you're not wasting each not that you're wasting each other's time, but you know what I mean, like, you're not signing up to something that's not quite right and the person isn't trying to do something that's not quite right for you.

Tazmin: 00:25:03

Another hybrid type thing is coaches who have coaching programmes, which is quite similar to what I do. So I'll have a coaching programme that teaches people about personal development, which is the knowledge base, and then there's group coaching, or one to one coaching, where I take more of a pure coaching stance, where that person has centre stage, there's lots of questions. So it's a combination, because when I'm in pure coaching mode, ICF regulated, I'm not allowed to tell. People, do it like this. It's not part of the code of conduct.

Sarah: 00:25:46

Right? Yes.

Tazmin: 00:25:48

If you feel in that environment that there is something that you can add that would add value to that person, you ask permission and say, I've got this book I could recommend. Do I have your permission to share? And then if they say yes, you share it. So coaches with coaching programmes sort of like plug both elements, they give the knowledge, but then they also give the space. And I've had experience of all four of these models and I've benefited from all four. I think I've had more, AHA, moments with a coach because you're working it out yourself rather than told. But at the same time there have been some great advice that I've been giving through mentorship which saved a lot of time.

Sarah: 00:26:40

Okay. Yeah. I suppose it depends what you need at that moment in time. So maybe if you don't have a lot of time, maybe the mentorship is the route to go down. Whereas if you've got a bit more time and you want to like yeah, you don't want so much someone to tell you how to do it, but you want a space to be facilitated where you can work through your thoughts, then that's where you go through the coaching options. I suppose.

Tazmin: 00:27:15

I think also it's not just about the time, because if you are somebody who feels that you've been held back by something and you go to a mentor and they say, right, do these ten things, that could save you a lot of time if you could actually get through those ten things. But if you don't, you're just going to feel demoralised and more stuck. I think coaching helps in that respect, but if you are supposing right now, running a business, want to learn how to, I don't know, get better at social media, I would be happy to do that. With the coaching, it's more about getting over those beliefs that are holding you back.

Sarah: 00:28:04

Okay. Very interesting. Yeah. Because I suppose before this episode I would have kind of interchangeably used coaching and mentorship and not really understood. But now I feel like I'm got a much clearer picture. Obviously, we talked about with coaching, if you use someone who's got the accreditations and they've got the qualifications or what have you, then that's always recommended. Right. But I suppose with mentorship it's less about the qualifications, I think it's more.

Tazmin: 00:28:49

About whether they're an expert in the field. With accreditation, what's happening is that you're provided with assurance of their professionalism, their expertise, and that they're going to adhere to ethical standards. Whereas if you're a mentor, you're somebody who has reached a certain position in that industry, that person wants to learn from you, so you're teaching them about that skill, about that element of the industry, as opposed to working on them.

Sarah: 00:29:22

Okay.

Tazmin: 00:29:23

And I think also, with a mentor, it depends on the relationship. There might not be a relationship where they're going to take into account other values. So you may want to progress in your career, but you also have a value where family time is very important and then there's a clash of values. So a mentor depending on the relationship and you said something, which do you go for? It really does depend on what you want to achieve, your personal circumstances. There's so many things, but I think hopefully today's episode, it won't have made everything crystal clear for anybody, but it would give them a little bit more information to work on.

Sarah: 00:30:11

Well, I think you have made it crystal clear, the differences and about making sure that you're signing up to the right one. But obviously, this is all a journey, isn't it? I suppose you learn some stuff along the way.

Tazmin: 00:30:33

Any questions, reach out to me. I'm happy to answer.

Sarah: 00:30:40

That was a wonderful yeah, I suppose you ended with the key takeaway, which was like, choosing which one, right?

Tazmin: 00:30:49

Yeah. Just find out what you want and have discovery calls to see where there's a good fit.

Sarah: 00:30:58

Yes, 100%.

Tazmin: 00:30:59

And a really good coach. If they feel that they can't help you, they will tell you that I can't help you, because sometimes people come to a coach when they actually need a counsellor.

Sarah: 00:31:15

Interesting. Wow. That was wonderful. Thank you very much, Tazmin, for making it a lot more clearer what the differences are between coaching and mentorship. So, yeah, before we wrap up, just a reminder again of how you can support the podcast. So you can buy us a coffee. So there'll be a link in the show notes for that, so you'll be able to give us a one off donation if you're enjoying what me and Tazmin are doing. And you can also help us spread the word. So tell everyone if you've enjoyed this episode, find a link to it and share it with your friends, family, colleagues, anyone and everyone to help as many people as possible. Be aware about the SEO mindset now. Oh, there is one more thing. There is? Yeah, I've just seen the note. So you received a lovely message from one of our listeners, didn't you?

Tazmin: 00:32:16

Yes. Should I read out?

Sarah: 00:32:19

Yes. If we just say the first name, I reckon so.

Tazmin: 00:32:25

This is from a lovely lady called Colette and she sent me a message on LinkedIn the other day to say I'm a big fan of the SEO Mindset podcast. It's helped me a lot with my role, career, and the advice you and Sarah give is always so useful. A big thanks from me to you and Sarah. I actually came to your live podcast in Brighton with a colleague, which was such a great and wonderful way to kick off our first trip to Brighton SEO.

Sarah: 00:32:55

Well, thank you very much, Collette. Yeah, that live podcast seems like it was ages ago, but there is discussions of doing another live podcast at the next Brighton SEO. So obviously there's nothing been planned yet, just planting the seed. But thank you very much, Colette. That was wonderful. It's always lovely when we receive messages from our listeners right. Saying wonderful stuff about the podcast. So thank you very much. And, yeah, if you want, like, send us a message. Our Twitter and all our social media links are in the show notes. So, yeah, reach out to us and we'd love to read your message out, give you a shout out as well. Wonderful. Right, should we say goodbye to us?

Tazmin: 00:33:51

I think we should. Thank you very much, everybody, for listening.

Sarah: 00:33:55

Yes, and thank you for that wonderful episode, Tazmin. It was very helpful.

Tazmin: 00:34:00

Thank you very much. Take care.

Sarah: 00:34:02

Till next time. Bye.