The Importance of Worrying Less with Katie McDonald

Sarah: 00:00:07

Hello and a very warm welcome to the SEO Mindset podcast. Thank you very much for tuning in to another episode. This week, we're chatting about the importance of worrying less with Katie McDonald, including benefits, how to do it, and Katie will be sharing her own personal experiences. Now, a little reminder, if you do enjoy our podcast and what me and Tatum are doing, there's lots of different ways that you can support us. So, for example, you can donate a one off payment of five pound via our Buy Me a Coffee page. There'll be a link to that page in this episode, Show Notes, and you can also subscribe. So if you subscribe to the podcast, you will be notified whenever there is a new podcast episode ready for you to listen. Again, there will be a link in the Show Notes. So who is Katie? So, Katie is SEO mad and she's been doing SEO for ten years. She is a nature lover tea drinker and she is always looking for new ways to do things better. So, yes, let's invite Katie onto the podcast. Hello, Katie.

Katie: 00:01:23

Hello. How are you, Sarah?

Sarah: 00:01:25

I am fabulous, actually. Enjoying the sunshine, had a wonderful weekend. So I'm in a good place. How about you? Find good.

Katie: 00:01:35

Yeah, I'm all good, thank you. I'm really excited to be on the podcast and talking about something really important, actually, I don't think gets talked about enough, really, in the SEO industry. So, yes, I'm all had a lovely day in the sun and now I'm very excited to talk about how to not worry 100%.

Sarah: 00:01:51

So I think it'd be cool to give our audience a little context of how we met and how this episode came about. So we met for the first time in Brighton SEO last was that last month?

Katie: 00:02:05

Yeah, I think that's flown.

Sarah: 00:02:12

But yeah, then we met up afterwards because obviously we clicked, we got on and we're like, should we be friends? That happened. And then, yeah, we had a really good chat about this topic, about our experiences of how we've worried, and lots of people can worry a lot in their personal and their career life. So we were having a really good conversation about that and sharing our experiences. And then there was a little light bulb moment, wasn't there? Like, we should do this on the SEO Mindset? So I asked you and you said.

Katie: 00:02:45

Yes, that's exactly the story. Yeah. So I'm really, really excited. I think you definitely paused and sort of said to me, yeah, I think we've got our topic because I think because of it, you put the idea out to me and I was a bit sort of, oh, what would you want me to talk about? But actually we got talking, putting the world rights and you suddenly had that light bulb moment. So, yeah, definitely good topic to do.

Sarah: 00:03:06

I feel like if we were in a cartoon when they literally have the light bulb that like goes, yeah, I.

Katie: 00:03:12

Think that's I think that's exactly what it would have looked like. Yes, I definitely agree.

Sarah: 00:03:18

Wonderful. Right, so let's kick things off then. So in your opinion, why do we worry? And why do you think it's common in the SEO industry?

Katie: 00:03:31

Well, I think we worry because we're human. I think we forget that sometimes in whatever industry we're working in. We're not robots. I'm going to try and not mention the words AI in the next half an hour or so, but we're not robots. We are human. We all have faults. We're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we worry because most of us want to do well, just want to not even thinking about work, want to just be happy and don't want to be in danger. It goes back to evolution, that fight or flight response. So none of us want to be in that situation or anything. But in terms of the SEO industry, there's so many things that can then influence that. Like, you've got constant the Google's changing every single day, multiple times. The SERPs are just constantly changing. And we've kind of over the last ten years, I've definitely noticed that a lot of us, we're chasing Google, we're chasing the SERPs, and when it's constantly changing all the time, and you've got obviously, whether you're agent, I've only ever been agency side, but when you feel client side as well, you're constantly looking at keywords. Your role kind of then sits to monitoring all these keywords. And is that driving business for your client or for the company you're working for? And with seasonality as well. And it's such a worry prone industry, especially if you're an overthinker like I used to be. So I do think it's got a lot to answer for, 100%.

Sarah: 00:05:02

I remember when I first found out that Google does thousands of updates to their algorithms every day, because when you first get into the industry, you're told about these core algorithm updates, or like the panda, the penguin, all the big updates that happen constantly anyway. And it blew my mind that there was a lot more. And it's only when so obviously Google's changing things all the time, like you say, and it's only when a lot of websites are affected that that's when there's chatter in the SEO industry. I think to add to your point as well, we've got that we're human as well, so we're always going to worry. But I think as well, within the industry, we're all kind of self taught, do you know what I mean? That's going to feed into it as well. And there's a lot of I think people can end up comparing themselves to others, which is really hard. And also, like, I don't know if you have the same experience, but when I first got my first proper SEO job, I felt like I had to know everything and obviously the whole topic today is about how we will be less. But yeah, one of the things is you don't need to know everything, right? But I think we put pressure on ourselves, don't we, as humans, both in our personal and our work life? So that's going to make us worry.

Katie: 00:06:41

Yeah, definitely. I do remember when I very first started and I started working at one agency, and there wasn't too much pressure, so to speak, but it was definitely like, I'd done some writing and not so much SEO really, before. I was a digital content executive at a particular agency. And I definitely remember there was kind of a checklist of things to learn that makes you, like, how to really well, optimise really well a particular page. And now I look back and think, gosh, it goes so much further than just putting your h one tag there and putting your metadata in and does it load, like, relatively quickly. There's so much more to it than that. And I think I hope that the industry has kind of has grown over the last six or seven, nearly ten years, that it's not just about it shouldn't just be a checklist thing when you're optimising content, it's about searching ten. And obviously Google changing now with the with the eat stuff, with all that with all that update. Exactly, yeah. So then there's all the questions around, actually, what makes content have that e 80 factor, rather than just what makes quality content rather than low quality content. And when you think you've written quality content and because it's not rubbish and there's no errors in it, but actually then something else ranks that seems to be the same quality and that's what then causes the worry that when you've not written, you know, you've not written anything bad or a lie or anything like that. The AI might but then it still doesn't rank first and the client's not happy and you're like that's naturally going to cause definitely a fight or flight response in some form. Definitely.

Sarah: 00:08:33

Yeah. With the eat, google recently added the other e, didn't they? And you see so many, which is now experience, expertise, authority, trust. And I saw so many memes of like, how many more ears are we going to have?

Katie: 00:08:52

But that's for another podcast.

Sarah: 00:08:57

Right? What was the turning point for you? So was there a moment where you thought, okay, I need to stop worrying less because of X, Y and Z? Was there like a turning point?

Katie: 00:09:11

Yeah. So for me, I mean, me personally, there probably was quite a large turning point, or kind of a definitive moment, if you like. So for months, probably, possibly even over a year, maybe, I'd lose track of it really all blurred into one. I was going through real quite severe skin problems, and I spoke to lots of different doctors and they all said different things, and some of it was temporary. Some of it was just giving you palmy coffee, creams and medications. And after a very long amount of time of pulling my hair out with it all, I ended up going to an allergy clinic in up north somewhere. I can't remember when I and the guy there what I walked in straight away thinking that I might be might have an allergy. I went for a skin pretest to kind of rule out some things, and he said, yeah, you've definitely not got an allergy. You've got and then he just diagnosed me with something called chronic spontaneous urticaria, which only affects actually, I didn't know this until I licked it the other day, only affects 1.4% of the general population, so it's quite rare. He described it as not very rare, but actually, to me, that sounds quite rare. If someone said that percentage, I'd be thinking there's something like one in five people. But don't quote me on the stat.

Sarah: 00:10:32

Yeah, I'd say that.

Katie: 00:10:33

Yeah. What it is, it basically means that your body, obviously we all produce some kind of level of histamine. And people with what I have, the levels in the system is a bit messed up, basically, and it can cause what looks like what looks like an allergic reaction. If I went into an emergence department and said, oh, help, they'd go, oh, you've got a peanut allergy. But I haven't. It's red and it's itchy it swells. And one of the biggest things that this guy said to me, he was absolutely brilliant. The first person in a long time, health wise, to kind of look at me and go, I know what that is, straight away, to diagnose it and then say there's not really a cure because it's still such an unknown thing, even like the NHS don't really know about it. But the big thing that can affect it and can trigger it, and that's part of the learning curve, really. You have to kind of just figure out what does trigger it. And he said, One massive factor can be stress. And at the time, I sort of thought, oh, God. Because everyone says, oh, stress can affect this. Don't get stressed, worry less. And then when someone says it and actually, that could be the reason why your face has looked like you've been beaten up for the last week, or whatever, and you can't sleep because you can't move your mouth. And it's just horrible when you're having a flare up. And I realised kind of like, I need to stop worrying because it's literally my body is fighting itself. So it was kind of a bit of a bombshell, a bit of a reality cheque. But when I came and when we had, like, a discussion and he put me on a lot of medication and things like that, and since then I haven't had a flare up because when I came out of that appointment, I didn't plan on getting upset but straight. I literally remember closing the door, we walked back to the car and I just completely broke down in tears. Not because I was scared or anything like that, or any negative emotion. It was just I kind of finally realised, A, I had an answer, someone had told me what it was, and B, I could finally get my control back. And realising that after all those years of listening to my well intended parents saying, oh, don't worry, don't worry about this, don't worry about that, don't let stress take hold of your life, all this stuff. But when you're growing up and your parents telling you to worry less and you've not really got any major responsibilities, no bills to pay or anything like that, telling you not to be stressed is like telling water not to be wet. It's just it's not going to happen. But then after that moment, it was like, right, this is your first bombshell. If you don't get your act together now and start not stressing and chilling out a bit, this might be the start of a very horrible journey. You need to sort of not stress. And then since then, I've implemented some strategies and just try to stop worrying, basically. And I haven't had a flare up since I can't even remember when, but that was definitely a massive turning point for me to kind of life.

Sarah: 00:13:53

I was just going to say, and sorry I cut you off. That's okay at the end there. But I just wanted to say thank you for being so open and transparent and sharing that, because I felt it when you were kind of telling me. And I suppose, yes, you were saying that you finally got an answer of what was going on, because I imagine that would be quite frustrating. But obviously you had a real big reason to actually take this seriously. That we need to stop. Or you need to. Well, we all do. Right. But you had this experience, it was like, I really need to put myself first and stop worrying, stop stressing, like, stop putting pressure on. So, yeah. And I'm just I'm just glad that that was a it sounds like a quite obviously, I can't imagine what you're going through at the time, but it sounds like if you look at it, it kind of helped you.

Katie: 00:14:59

Oh yeah. It definitely helped me because I genuinely think I kind of almost wish we should have been diagnosed earlier because the last sort of I can't even remember when that appointment was now because everything because I've not stressed about anything or I've put new strategy in place now, new thinking strategies that nothing really stresses me out because I don't let it. Because I know that it's going to affect me and I'm not going to want to. When I originally had that, the worst flare up that I genuinely thought, I genuinely questioned the original diagnosis and thought, are you sure this isn't life threatening? Because I couldn't sleep and I couldn't do anything. I took the Friday off work, which was a massive thing as it was, because for me, it's that time off work. I just didn't want to and then I got to Sunday night and I still couldn't sleep and I thought, right, I need to take the week off work to figure this out, because my face was just ballooning. And then I managed to kind of dealt with it and was on some lot of steroids and kind of recovered over the week. But then again, like I say, started figuring out, right, okay, so we say we're going to stress less, but how the hell are we going to do that? Because you've been trying to oh, not already, not stress and chill out, but actually, how do you do that? And then I started implementing it and, yeah, I don't feel Zen all the time because no one does, but I've learned to take control of my thoughts and that definitely has a massive impact when it comes to the industry we're working.

Sarah: 00:16:30

So, yeah, well, again, thank you for being so open and honest and, yeah, we're due to take a short break, so when we come back for part two, we'll be chatting about some of your tips about how to worry less and, yeah, we'll see what else we have time for. But I'm just so glad that something so scary and really scary for you, you managed to find an answer and find a solution, but you found a way for it, for a positive outcome. So, yes, awful and scary what you went through, but I suppose now, would you say you have a better relationship with yourself and more self awareness and you know how to look after yourself in a way?

Katie: 00:17:33

Absolutely. No, absolutely. And to be honest, if anything, I feel quite I don't know what the word is, but it's quite nice, actually. Yeah, it was obviously really scary at the time and what the hell is going on with my body? And all of that kind of stuff. And it was a bit of a, oh, God, like, this is a big diagnosis. Like, God, how am I going to get my head around this? Like, the NHS don't even know what this is called and how do I figure this out? And it was a bit like it took me longer than one that one week to figure it out. But actually I've joined several Facebook groups and stuff like that and talked about it with other people with kind of extended friends and extended family members and things like that. And actually the amount of people who are seeing similar symptoms in themselves like the odd rash on their arm and actually won't go away and things like that. Actually, I'm wondering how many people of this Mindset podcast might either know someone that's going through a similar thing or be having these random flare ups of themselves and not knowing what it is or being told, oh, you're allergic to peanuts, or you're allergic to X-Y-Z. And if it helps them get that diagnosis quicker obviously it might not be that but if it helps them do that, if it helps anybody to understand what it is if it is that then I'll be delighted for them to be honest because it shocks you a little bit but then actually you kind of take control of your life. Well, I'm glad that it made me do that. And the impact has been it sounds really cliche, but I want to say life changing, to be honest, because it has been managed to reduce stress, because I kind of realised I had to.

Sarah: 00:19:29

Wonderful. Right, let's take a pause, let's take a break and when we come back, you can share with us and our listeners how we actually do this. Then how do we worry less? So it'd be great to learn from you the strategies that you have in place. So, yeah, we'll catch you all back for part two. Right, so we are back for part two of the podcast. I hope everyone had a nice little break and yeah, so obviously, Katie, very courageous there for sharing that personal story with us. So, yeah, thank you. Thank you, Katie. Again, I think I thank you quite. But yeah, so let's get into because I'm guessing that, like, there'll be people listening who have had maybe, like, similar similar or lack exact experiences, or they've had other sort of turning points for them where they're like, I need to get control. Like, this stress, this worry is taking too much, it's consuming and it can be, can't it? So let's hear your strategies. So how do you worry less? How do you take back control?

Katie: 00:20:56

So it's definitely not like a one thing I do and it's a conscious effort, just a disclaimer. This isn't like a one thing that I do. There tends to be about five maybe that are kind of in my head, really, but the more you do them, the more it just becomes kind of a lifestyle, if you like. So the first thing that I do, and it's probably the biggest, especially when I kind of realise I notice when I'm slipping. So I've tried to stop what if thinking. Because it's not helpful when I say what if thinking. Just if anyone doesn't know if you're thinking about a particular situation, whether it's SEO wise, work wise, just life, I don't know if you run away on your way to meet a friend or whatever and you're thinking, oh, God, what if I'm late? Well, first of all, stop that. What if you're late? Okay, if you're late, five minutes late. I was 45 minutes late the other day to meet a friend and I am never touchwood late because I was having a slip moment and I felt myself think, Why am I thinking that? Well, yeah, I'm now going to be 45 minutes late. I'll do a massive apology because it was her birthday as well, so that was a great friend move. 45 minutes late to the birthday. And I said there was a massive apology and offered to pay for dinner and always forgotten and we moved on and she still wanted to stay friends. So the world didn't end, it kept turning. But yeah, so that can obviously the what if thinking, stop that because it's not helpful, you're just going to get yourself into a hole that you won't get out of. There's always a solution. So whoever you think, oh, God, what if this happens? What if this keyword drops? What if we lose this client? Well, okay, what if ask yourself, okay, well, what if the keyword drops? You probably pick up another keyword, it'll probably change in half an hour, in a day, in a month. If you lose the client, you lose the client, you'll gain another one in a month. There's always a that's the reason behind stop your what if thinking. So if you hear yourself thinking, oh, God, what if that haven't stopped straight away, just stop, because you won't go down that rabbit hole then, and that's like 90% of your stress gone. So that's probably the biggest one, because you'll realise how much headspace you then have and then the next few. So I've got finding your healthy habits and that sounds so cheesy, but one of the things I definitely make an effort to do every single day is just getting outside, literally, it can be for five minute walk. Just fresh air makes a world of a difference. Even if you're working from home or you're working from the office or whatever it is, and you're not living in the countryside or whatever, just get outside for five minutes, walk two and a half minutes that way for five, whatever you've got, and back again. I guarantee you'll feel like and you'll feel relieved.

Sarah: 00:24:08

Well, it gives you the space to breathe.

Katie: 00:24:12

Even if you're living somewhere that's quite built up, there's still air outside, there's still fresh air. You'll still feel it on your face. You can still do it. Get yourself moving a bit.

Sarah: 00:24:22

We need the oxygen. We're human.

Katie: 00:24:24

Exactly. Yeah. We're not robots. We need oxygen. So definitely getting outside. And if you can do it for more, if you can do it more often than that, and if you can do it for longer and you enjoy it, go wild. Do a whole half an hour before and after work, because that's grown to what I do now. But if you run in a crazy schedule or don't have time or whatever, then five minutes is literally all you need. A couple of other ones that I do is I go to the gym quite often, but I don't do any cardio at the gym. It's all weightlifting and it's all none of it's like, I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder because that's not going to happen. I've been doing it for three years, I'm still not a bodybuilder, so there's no concerns there. But it's all about getting that mindset and having a relaxed, spending time with yourself, being calm, working through your reps, and actually you'll move up to a new set. And obviously the gym is not for everyone, I get that, but that's definitely something I do to have kind of a more grounded feeling. I leave the gym feeling really strong and even though I'm not a bodybuilder, and you don't need to be to feel strong, but it comes from inside as well. If you leave the gym and you feel physically good, it's going to affect up here as well, and then you feel stronger to kind of shut off that way, thinking. So it all comes together really nicely.

Sarah: 00:25:53

Just to add to this point as well, is, like you said, not everyone's a gym goer, but any exercise, right? Because it's going to get those endorphins going. No one has ever regretted doing a workout. Doing exercise, apart from if you had an injury, maybe it might be time you regret it, but you're never going to regret something that is good for your body. So find that, like, yes, it can be the gym, it can be a walk, it can be a run yoga, you could go on YouTube and find.

Katie: 00:26:32

A Joe Wick boxing or something I know that you love.

Sarah: 00:26:38

Yeah, whatever works.

Katie: 00:26:41

And then a couple of other ones. So there's another mindsetty, one which is asking yourself, is this going to matter in five years? Is this going to matter in a year? If there's something that you're like, for example, if you're like, I don't know, if you're driving along and something happens and you're like, oh, God, did I put that person up? Oh, God. Just stop. That's not going to matter in two minutes. That's not going to matter in five years. Obviously, there's loads of other examples that I could give and that happens in everyday life and in our industry as well. Is it going to matter in a year? Is it going to matter tomorrow? And if it's going to matter tomorrow because the client's going to ask you about the keyword or whatever, is it going to matter in five years? Probably not. So you can chill all about that. You can stop your wife thinking, go and get outside for five minutes, have a breather, and then you might realise that actually, it's not the end of the world, we're going to keep turning. There'll be other ways around it, actually, you can calm down a little bit. And then the last one that I do that again is I notice this if I feel like I'm not getting bad again because I've never got to that level because of these strategies. But one thing I do notice, if I'm feeling particularly nervous, like I was before this podcast, my shoulders are up here. Relax your shoulders. You hold so much tension and I didn't realise this in your shoulders. So relax them, try and relax them more, even if you think they're relaxed, because the amount of times I've been on my shoulders are fine. And literally, when I first started doing this strategy, I had to kind of do that just to see how far down the world automatically I'm doing it now and I don't even feel tense. And actually, I can feel myself exhaling. So definitely relax shoulders on a regular basis, which sounds very cheesy, but there you go. So those are probably my top tips on how to do it on a regular basis. Obviously, if you don't go to the gym, you can still start what ifs thinking, and you can still remind yourself to relax your shoulders. But the big one for me is that it's all in here, it's all in your head. And if you can control your mindset, you control what thoughts. You can pinpoint the unhelpful thoughts and you can say, no, don't need that, and literally ignore it and carry them with a day rather than letting that one thought then stress you out for three months because you're panicking. About a keyword or you're panicking about you panicked for a week that you were 45 minutes late to your friend's birthday party or whatever. So those are definitely things to bear in mind.

Sarah: 00:29:27

I love all of those strategies and they're not hard to implement.

Katie: 00:29:32

They're free, really.

Sarah: 00:29:33

Actionable. They're free. Apart from the gym, maybe, but you can find a free, as you were talking about strategies, it get my brain thinking of some of the things to add, because, yeah, if we give our listeners a list and then that'd be good. So some of the things that I thought about is always be kinder to yourself. So if you say something to yourself that you wouldn't say to a friend, a work colleague, a family member, don't say it to yourself. I know that's easier said than done, but I suppose it links to your what if and the worrying. Get into the mindset. Treat yourself with some respect. Be kind.

Katie: 00:30:20

I definitely, definitely agree with that one. I've heard that lots of times, to be fair, and I think it gets used a lot, but then I think it loses its value because actually, the phrase FOMO, not FOMO sorry, you only live once, I was getting my phrases confused then, actually, there we go.

Sarah: 00:30:45

Just to clear that up for our listeners.

Katie: 00:30:47

Yes, sorry about that. Being kind to myself, not punishing myself for that. But yes. So the whole yolo thing, I think people people think that about, like, do I go travelling and do I do all these amazing things and go different places and see different things and actually. You only live once. So mentally make your brain and not make your mind a nice place to live, because it's all well and good if you're going to go and travel the world, but if you're going to be horrible to yourself the whole time, doesn't really make much sense. So I agree with you then.

Sarah: 00:31:19

Yeah, 100%. Another one. Remember that people forget. Clients forget. So something that I have to remind myself is say, I feel like I've put my foot in it, or I've said something like, I've said something that I feel like I look silly in front of a client, or I'm doing a presentation, I've said something not quite right. Or we've all had those times where we're like, oh, my gosh, what did.

Katie: 00:31:45

I just do every day?

Sarah: 00:31:48

Remember. But remember, people forget. Like, people move on. They don't remember. And also, if you are doing a presentation to whoever or whenever you're doing a speaking gig, remember that only you know what you've missed out, what you've not quite done. So always remember that have that mentality, and again, it feeds into your like, does it matter tomorrow? Does it matter in five years time?

Katie: 00:32:17

Because people are going to forget.

Sarah: 00:32:19

People have got their own worries. They're like, yeah, do you know what? We know they've got their own stuff that's going on in their head.

Katie: 00:32:25

Yes, absolutely. That people forget. One is a really good one, actually, that I'll have to add that one to my list through the amount of times I've messaged a friend afterwards to say or a colleague or something because, oh, God, I really hope I didn't put my foot in it when I said and they're like, oh, it's fine. Like, what you want about I don't even remember you saying that. So don't worry about that. People forget.

Sarah: 00:32:48

You're going to be your own biggest criticism.

Katie: 00:32:50

Exactly.

Sarah: 00:32:52

And then one that I always remember. So this is something that Tasman has said on a podcast or like, something that she's taught me is take five. So whenever something happens, take a step back, take a breather. So say something. Kicks off with a client, rankings drop. You're asked a question. Don't think that you need to provide an answer straight away. Okay? Give yourself time. Give yourself time to breathe. Meditation, chill, calm, go outside, like you said, in the air. Always give yourself a breather and then give yourself time to answer. Come up with a reason or an explanation. Come up with a solution, but try and do it from a place of as calm as you can be. So if you try and tackle something in the heat of the moment, it's just not going to work. So give yourself a bit of time. And again, it's kind of like leading back to the being kinder to yourself, isn't it? Respect yourself to cheque in with yourself. And they can wait. They don't need an answer there and then.

Katie: 00:34:15

I do think there's such a big pressure in obviously, I can only speak for agency side because it is naturally a fast paced environment and obviously most hardworking SEO professionals want to please their clients naturally and want to please their colleagues and the people they work with, all of that kind of stuff. And actually, you can kind of not lose your head. That's probably the wrong phrase, but you can get a bit just like you say, take five, you don't need to respond in the next 30 seconds. Like, they can wait two minutes, half an hour, an hour. So, yeah, that's a really good one, actually, because there is such a pressure, especially when clients who they're paying clients, they want an answer to X-Y-Z and that's perfectly acceptable and perfectly reasonable. But actually, if it takes you half an hour or whatever to do a bit of research and actually look into things and then go back to them and say, so actually, this is why it's happening. This is what we're going to do about it, or provide the facts or whatever, but just give yourself that space to go, right, let me just think about this first and then actually deal with it rather than go panic and try and resolve it. And actually, you'll probably make a mistake during that or look at the wrong data because you'll be in panic mode, so stay out of that. Stop thinking what if and just take a breather, like you say. I like it.

Sarah: 00:35:41

Nice. Awesome. Well, I'm very sorry, Katie, the time is flying, we are running out of time and I just want to squeeze in some very important questions that I ask all my guests. But, yeah, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast, talking about this very important topic and yeah, your courage of being so open and transparent and sharing and finding the strategies that work for you and sharing with our audience.

Katie: 00:36:16

No, you're more than welcome. I'm hoping that your audience is going to find some value from it, really, because I've definitely found a calmer, more grounded happiness, so to speak, and become a better SEO. Twisted myself more, got clients results and been a bit more chill and a bit more calm and got more confidence in it because that's what you gain from it as well. So, yeah, I'm more than delighted to have come on and spoken about it and waffled on about anxiety a little bit.

Sarah: 00:36:51

What is the key thing people should take away? So the one main thing, I would.

Katie: 00:36:56

Say, worrying starts in your head, but it can affect the whole of your body and it can change your life if you don't control it. So learn to control it.

Sarah: 00:37:09

Nice.

Katie: 00:37:09

Yeah, I'll just stick with that.

Sarah: 00:37:13

Yeah. Love it. What best bit of career advice you've ever received?

Katie: 00:37:21

I'm going to be controversial here and say that the best career advice I asked around. My mom, my dad, my NAN, they're all a bit confused, but it's a random question. They gave me some really great advice, but actually the best career advice that has landed me where I am now was the career advice I gave myself when my loving, wonderful, fantastic family said questioned because they didn't understand it, which is fine. Can you even write for a living? They didn't understand how you could start a blog, be in digital marketing. They didn't understand it. And ironically, I trusted my body, I trusted my gut and followed it through. And, yeah, your body talks to you, so I would say trust your gut. If you've got a feeling about something, go for it, would be my advice.

Sarah: 00:38:14

Lovely. And last question. Well, technically it is two, but one is really short. Name an SEO person people should be following and why.

Katie: 00:38:28

So, this is someone that I went to her talk in Brighton, SEO the one just gone. And her name is Jeannie Jones. I think she's and she's a knowledge graph manager in links, and she talked about something called the same as tag, which is basically a little piece of code you can put in Schema. But the reason why I think people should be following her is because the whole talk, the whole concept behind it, other than obviously this piece of code, was that she just thought differently about Google. She was the only one that I kind of noticed in this whole conference where she thought differently about Google and she had a mentality that was getting us all out of our little traditional SEO box. And I think the way that SEO is changing, we need to be doing much more of that. So it was really refreshing. So, yeah, go follow Jeannie Jones, I'd say.

Sarah: 00:39:23

Nice. Well, I'll get some links from you and we'll pop them in the Show Notes and then people can go and cheque that person out. And where can people find you, Katie?

Katie: 00:39:38

So I'm mostly active on LinkedIn. Don't really have Twitter, but, yeah, I'm very active on LinkedIn, so you can find me over on there.

Sarah: 00:39:51

Wonderful. Again, your links will also be in this episode, show Notes, so people can go there. Well, thank you so much. The time has absolutely flown by, but this was so invaluable for our listeners and, yeah, we shone a light on something that was really important, but you also gave some great actionable strategies that people can put in place. So thank you so much.

Katie: 00:40:19

I was just going to say, you're so welcome, because I don't feel like worrying and all that kind of stuff. It's talked about a lot in the industry, mental health is, but less so much worrying and actually how you can actually implement that. So, no, I'm really pleased to have to have offered something to your audience.

Sarah: 00:40:35

Amazing. And I would just like to remind people that, yes, if you enjoyed today's episode and you enjoy the SEO mindset. Just a reminder of how you can support us. So we are on. Buy me a coffee. That's where you can give us a one off donation. There'll be a link in the show notes for that. And you can also subscribe. So if you subscribe to our podcast every time there's new episode like today's episode with the fabulous Casey, you will get notified so you never miss an episode. So that's all the podcast admin done, so let's say goodbye until next time, Kate.

Katie: 00:41:16

Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Sarah. It's been wonderful.

Sarah: 00:41:19

Goodbye, everyone.