Bonus: How To Stick To Your Boundaries

boundaries episode with Jo replay

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Tazmin: [: 00:00:00

And what I'll be doing is diving into the treasure chest of previous podcasts. I'm going way back to season one, where I was talking to Jo Turnbull about the importance of setting boundaries for our career growth and for our personal lives. And it's such a great episode, but I'm going to add even more content, even more insights.

ng about will hopefully help [: 00:01:00

But in our scenarios, um, here, we're talking about a clear and well defined limit that is set to protect your time, um, and your energy and your well being. And it can also include, um, protecting your self esteem, your self confidence, family time. So, it's what, uh, what is important to us. We want to make sure that we are protecting it.

something else. You know, us [: 00:02:00

So for example, if you run, if you've got a side hustle and a job, then there is still you, it's still you, but there needs to be a boundary set. Another example is, um, If you have different hats that you wear at work, you might be a manager, but also doing the tasks. So how do you separate those two? And by doing that, you actually gain so many of the benefits.

n you and other people right [: 00:03:00

Better work life harmony, which then leads to better relationships. And for you yourself, Much stronger mental health. So it's really an important thing to be able to do and it's a skill. It doesn't, it doesn't mean that you have to be naturally gifted at it. You can get better and better at setting boundaries.

ing, that was very easy, you [: 00:04:00

So, I've known some people go as far as, if they're working from home, they will actually get ready, they will have breakfast at home, they will get dressed, they will walk out of the front door, walk around the block, and come back in again. And that's for them. Really establishing that, okay, now I'm in work mode.

And if you don't want to go that far, you could put a sign on the door, you know, um, do not disturb because that's you in work mode. And then when you come out of that room, you are no longer in work mode. So think about how you could use physical boundaries to protect protect yourself. Another one is a time boundary.

times or amount of time. So [: 00:05:00

This is really important to do even if you're working for yourself because you, you need to separate. Once you have really blurred lines, life becomes really tricky. Another one is workload boundaries. Um, so this is amount, um, so, um, amount of work and, you know, delegation is a really good one to do because if you just keep on saying yes, you, at one point, you're going to break down.

hing on your to do list done [: 00:06:00

Or even if you work for yourself, if somebody gives you an opportunity, challenge yourself, how does this fit in with my goals? Another one that is slightly, um, less talked about is digital boundaries. So this is the limit on how much digital information you consume. Um, it can be done at work by taking regular breaks, so you know you're limiting screen time.

ich is no good for us. And a [: 00:07:00

So this is where you use time and task combination to make sure you're doing the right things at the right time. Examples of this are morning routine, which incorporates many types of self care. Another example of this is like a shutdown routine. So if you have, um, I know that many people that do this, they're about to finish work, even if they're working from home, and they say, right, and tomorrow I'm going to do task one, two, and three.

want to do. How do we do it? [: 00:08:00

So let's start off with the boundaries for self. Discipline is definitely a skill, a strategy, that will help you make sure that you are protecting yourself from yourself, in a way. So protecting your, um, family self from your work self. And there are There are many apps that you can use, um, to manage your time.

work from this hour to this [: 00:09:00

And in order to make sure that I stay focused, I'm going to do some co working. I'm going to set myself some deadlines, even if there aren't any actual deadlines. And what's a really, um, additional good thing to do is regularly assess All of those strategies, are they working for you, or not? What do you need to tweak?

Now, what about when you are setting boundaries between you and somebody else? A key skill there is communication. Communicate those boundaries clearly and early, stating why they need to be in place. Because the worst thing is if you don't communicate, you've got that boundary in your head, you know what you need to do, but you don't communicate it, so that person doesn't know.

you state clearly early, and [: 00:10:00

So if you say, I'm only going to be able to work from this time to this time. Or I'm not going to be accessing my emails while I'm on holiday. If you get pushback, it's about making sure that you are firm and you know why you're setting that boundary. And you can communicate, again, that very, um, you know, very clearly, very concisely.

etting a boundary. Now let's [: 00:11:00

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the SEO Mindset Podcast with myself Tasmin Suleiman and today I have a wonderful guest with us, Jo Juliana Turnbull, also known as SEO Jo Now, she has so much going on in her life. Jo is a freelance marketing consultant in Barcelona. She's also an organizer for Search London.

aving me on the, the podcast [: 00:12:00

Jo: I've really enjoyed, uh, watching how it grows, um, and listening to some of the episodes that you and Sarah have. So uh, yeah, Turn Global, so I've recently set this up in Spain, it's in Sociedad Limitada, which is a limited company. Here and I set it up because I've been working freelance off and on for about 12 years.

I did it in the UK. I went to Australia. I'm Australian as well, even though I don't sound it. Um, and then I moved to Spain and. I have set that up there and basically what Turn Global does is it offers SEO consultancy. So it's either offering SEO consultancy as in someone to help you provide advice and guidelines for SEO in general or the second area is actually doing the implementation as well.

and that's all under now the [: 00:13:00

ope to launch that back up in: 2023

Tazmin: So with with so much going on and, you know, in freelancing, you've got that freedom in a way to do lots of things. And that also requires you to have a certain skill set, one of which is boundary setting which is what we're going to talk about today.

's, let's start off with how [: 00:14:00

Jo: This is as important as having a balanced diet or, um, getting out and getting enough exercise. We should all eat better and sleep longer, but, you know, we don't always because it's always quicker to, to grab something that's already made food wise. Full of preservatives, or, um, you have so much going on that you kind of cut that sleep, um, from, well, the sleep hours from your schedule.

sleep, the food, and it then [: 00:15:00

about it on that topic. So, all right, supposing somebody doesn't set them or doesn't set them very well, what's the impact going to be on someone's career, someone's life?

With regards to your career, it could mean that you work on weekends, you work long hours during that week, um, so that you don't have those fun things to do for yourself. Um, if you are in a city, and you don't want to travel or give yourself a down time, it also means that if you are close to in proximity to your family and friends, you don't have time to meet them.

ste opportunity. If you, um, [: 00:16:00

You may think that you're being helpful. So, for example, this may happen also to people that are, I think, when they're young, they're, you know, everyone's supposed to, yeah, dig in and, you know, get involved in lots of different things and be shown, seen as enthusiastic. So, I'm just taking this from my own experience of people that I've seen when they're younger, too.

I'm sure this happens at any age, but I'm just talking about it from this, from what I've seen. So you're a marketing assistant. You really want to grow in your marketing department. Um, then there's like an event taking place at your company. So you help, you know, organize the event. It's not your job.

ou're doing some paid search [: 00:17:00

There's maybe an event manager and that person needs your help. So you're doing that. Uh, and maybe you also help to sort of get some of the lunches in. You might do that once you might do that a few more times as well. And then people might start to see you as a type of admin assistant. Of course, nothing wrong with that.

But you're, the fact is you're spreading yourself out too thin that when it comes to promotions or when it comes to, Oh, what does this person do? What does Sarah do? Or, um, Rob do. Oh, well, I've seen him, you know, do all this stuff with reception. I'm sure seeing him also sometimes, you know, helped out in the accounts department.

that happens, because people [: 00:18:00

So, um, you need to obviously spend that time, downtime is important as uptime. And I also want to emphasize the fact that This expression, you deserve a break. Everyone should have a break. It's not something to deserve. So everyone should have downtime. So if you're not setting your boundaries in your personal life, it mean may mean that you're constantly, you know, on edge, you're constantly chasing things.

re always the one hosting in [: 00:19:00

You're always there for them. And you're kind of, You give good advice and maybe sometimes people use you as a trauma dumping type of ground and when you need advice from these people or when you're waiting for invites or when you want someone else to organize something you're not getting that so that can be a little bit of sort of boundaries but also people are not quite respecting your time.

Tazmin: And then the old adage, you know, if you're not going to respect your own time, don't expect other people to respect it. So it's your responsibility. Don't wait for anyone to say, Oh, you must be tired. Have a rest or Oh, you hosted five times at your house. Let's do it. It is about you taking that ownership yourself.

hat's it with work. And with [: 00:20:00

But even if it's your own manager who knows what your job is, he knows or she knows what your responsibilities are, appreciates that enthusiasm initially, but after a while, they themselves will think, why are they spending so much time in accounts? Why are they spending so much time in events? Is it because they're not taking this role seriously.

. Yeah, that is correct. And [: 00:21:00

Um, Uh, especially in terms of accounts and chasing, um, invoices helping. But in the end I had said, I'd like, no, I said that I was actually placed. I was like, you never helped me with my job. I can't do this for you. You can just pick up the phone and you can email. Oh, but you're so good at it. No, no, no, no. I can't do this for you.

So, um, it's really, it's a really fine balancing act. And I think that's really hard for people starting out. in any new job, I would say. But I think, just from my experience, I've seen a lot with young people because people can take advantage of young people a lot. And so, Jo, that brings me to the next question.

le find it so hard to say no?[: 00:22:00

Jo: People find it so hard to say no because Everyone wants to be liked. We all like praise. We like being told how good we are. We want to do well and be respected. And sometimes we think that if we say yes to something, that person you're saying yes to will be more happy with us and respect us in return, respect us more.

For work, you're probably hoping for a promotion or a, wider recognition outside of your team. In your personal life, if you're saying yes to things, you know, hosting parties all the time, always being the organizer, you were hoping that that would lead to a reciprocal agreement of someone inviting you to an exclusive club or, um, inviting you to their house or inviting you to different parties or, uh, inviting you to, to do other events with you.

But That's not always the [: 00:23:00

Tazmin: Yeah, yeah. And it's that lack of confidence, isn't it? When you start a new job, you want people to like you, you're likely to say yes to everyone's requests, in the hope that you'll build those relationships, but it's, um, it's a slippery slope.

Jo: Yes, correct. It is a slippery slope, because, yeah, everybody wants to be liked, and especially if You are in a new job, maybe you're not as confident in a specific role, you've changed careers perhaps, or you're young, or you're just new to the, to that industry. So you want to try and build allies. And sometimes you can say yes too often.

also be true if you've been [: 00:24:00

Jo: Yeah, I think that can sometimes happen because If we go back to the lack of confidence, if you think that maybe you're not good enough for that promotion, then you may want to overcompensate. Uh, I think if you've been in a company for a couple of years and you've been able to be aware and read other people's behavior and their, be able to read the surroundings.

n your four walls or garden, [: 00:25:00

Yeah, it's reminded me of a line, one of the people I coach, she is a business analyst in quite a large firm, and she has a lovely demeanor. Um, Recently, when she's been asked to take on more responsibilities, her response has been, I would love to do that for you, Mark. What is it you would like me not to do?

So she's not saying no to him. She's saying, yes, absolutely. I would really love to do that. But what do you want me to, to drop? And that's helped her. That one line has really helped her at work. Yeah, I agree. That's a really good one. Um, I've had one that I've used before, like, Yes, I can do that. Uh, however, if you could help me with some of the priorities, because we said X, Y, and Z were priority one, two, and three.

Therefore, if I'm doing, [: 00:26:00

So you say, yes, I'm working on these three pieces of work. What would you like me to not work on so that I could take on this other task? Yeah. Maybe I think I'm going to write this line of hers down and then use it myself. And I guess something that's just popped into my head. If you're asked to do something, you feel that there's one of two answers, either to say no or to say yes.

e to do that. What would you [: 00:27:00

Jo: Sounds good. Thank you.

Tazmin: Okay. Welcome back, everyone. We are talking about boundaries. We're with Joe SEO, Joe blogs. So we've had a really great chat so far about, um, you know, the importance of boundaries and why people find it so difficult to say no. Alright, supposing somebody has decided, I'm going to be different about it now.

How do you set effective boundaries?

. I know that sounds kind of [: 00:28:00

So, um, for work, have a goal of what you want to achieve for that year. So it could be if you're working for a company to be promoted, um, you want to be that main person people come to asking for help in a respectful way, of course, uh, look at where that energy that you have is going and the time and if it's not helping you and, you know, The direction that you want.

working, I don't know, six, [: 00:29:00

And you want to make sure you maximize that time. So, yeah. Right. You know, this concept, we talk so much about time management, but it is really energy management. And these days, before I say yes to anything, I mentally go through, okay, what's my return on investment on this? Because, exactly, and not even in work, in my free, in my free time as well, in my social life.

Tazmin: If, do I really want to hang out with those people? Is that what I need right now? Or do I need a quiet night at home? And it's being really, um, quite, quite strict about how you expend that time, expend that energy.

hing. Um, sorry, back to the [: 00:30:00

Um, one way of keeping your energy at work and focusing on your tasks is if people are always inviting you to meetings, there's no clear agenda. You are not needed in the meeting. You know, don't go to that. There was a very good presentation at Brighton SEO about How to have effective meetings and you need to have proper agendas and someone needs to actually have a part in that meeting to be valid to be worth, you know, the invite and for personal time.

Yes, it's correct. What you said, you know, you need to see. Okay, this four hours in my free time in the evening. Let's just say or two hours in the morning for in the afternoon or evening, whatever you need to see. Okay. How, how best do I want to use that time, you know, and then don't do too much in your free time for one activity.

So some people [: 00:31:00

Tazmin: Sometimes you feel like by attending those meetings you are being recognized as important but actually if you have no role in that meeting, nothing to contribute, nothing to gain, it's just wasting your time.

Jo: Yes, exactly. And I think before it was seen as rude to decline a meeting, but I think nowadays it's seen as, um, well, you know, you guys don't need me.

hree hours. You know, if you [: 00:32:00

Tazmin: Do you think, um, I, I didn't get to attend that talk at Brighton. Do you think the meetings culture is getting any better or is it getting worse in industry? Yeah, that one's a hard one because, you know, I work, I work with an agency. I work with some other clients too. Uh, the agency network was very good.

Jo: We don't, Have meetings for the sake of it. So I think it depends on the company that you work for. So in my example, you know, we'll have a meeting and there will be an agenda for it, you know, and people that are working on that project will come to it. People that are not will will not be attending. So it does come from the company itself.

ow, how many meetings do you [: 00:33:00

But at the same time, if you allow that to be too long, then it just becomes a chat. And you do need to have that focused 10 minutes at the beginning or five minutes at the beginning saying okay, what is it you want to work on today, what would in your mind what would mean that you've moved on to the place where you want to move on to.

t structure is so important. [: 00:34:00

So what tips would you give, sorry, would you be able to give someone to, um, to help them set healthy boundaries?

Jo: In order to help someone, uh, set these healthy boundaries, I'd actually go back to doing some things offline. So get an A4 sheet of paper, fold them in half, on one of the sides write work, and on the other one write personal.

And then write six things that you want to achieve at work. And, um, six things you want to achieve in your personal life and just think about how much time will that involve. So if we go with our personal life, considering you have maybe four hours for yourself. And this is, this is based on the fact that maybe your kids are.

bysit them all the time. Um, [: 00:35:00

What could that be? So, perhaps the second one could be keeping fit. Okay. So that how many hours is that a week that probably I would say that's for me, I would do four times a week. But if you go to the gym or go to an outdoor exercise class, you got to think about it's three hours each one, right?

u can meet these new friends.[: 00:36:00

Um, and then. You know, another one could be perhaps, you know, time for you and your family, and then another one after that could be time for you and your partner, or time for you to find a partner in crime. So, that's already a lot of hours in actual fact, um, you won't be able to squeeze them all in, in the evenings and the weekends.

You also, I wouldn't want to schedule this in, but you do need to have a seventh point as well. Okay, nothing to, nothing to do. I'm, I'm free. So six activities. This is, this is quite a lot. So what I would actually say is maybe pick out of those six, three that you want to focus on for six months, see how that goes.

blocks of time of six hours, [: 00:37:00

It could also be a bit of time about, you know, um, well, yeah, just discovering, you know, different, different parts of the company if you're, you're, if you're new. Um, so. There's not really much time if you think about six hours for work, if that's all the work that you're supposed to do. But then you want to learn something else within that time.

Sometimes that might have to go into your personal life. So you've already got six things in your personal life, so one has to go. So it can be tricky.

Tazmin: Yeah. And then there's also, I mean, you talked about your personal life. Yeah. Time with friends, time doing this, time doing this. And I would argue even time just being with yourself.

t to journal, if you want to [: 00:38:00

Jo: Yes, that is, the reflection time is very important, and actually I do write a journal, I've been doing it since I was like 13, my sister started when she was 8, or when we were 8, because we were the same age, and um, I like to write down nice memories, nothing, if I had a bad day, I don't really write that down, I'm being honest, but I just don't want to for Remember everything.

, keeping a journal and just [: 00:39:00

Anything nice that you're feeling, if you, of course, if you're feeling sad, write that down. But, uh, when I say I don't write negative things, it's like I don't like to write negative things about different people or about, um, sort of bad behaviors. I like to just try and keep it like positive.

Tazmin: Yeah. I read somewhere recently that, um, keeping a journal and writing the nice stuff is your chance to relive it.

Yeah. Which I thought was a beautiful way of summing it up.

Jo: Yeah, that's totally fine, uh, because I don't know if you realized it, but I, I remember actually when I was walking to school one day, that I was forgetting my childhood memories. And I just remember when I read the BFG, The Big Friendly Giant, by Roald Dahl.

could look at later. But you [: 00:40:00

Tazmin: Yeah, absolutely. You're so true. So true.

Well, I feel like we've really covered a lot on this very big topic. So what would you like people to take home from today's session? What are the key things?

Jo: Thanks. Well, the key thing I would like to everyone to take home is the fact that time, it is something that we cannot get back. So use it wisely.

Do not give your time away easily to others or to an activity without thinking about what you will get in return. Um, because giving it away could potentially negatively affect something else you may want to do with that time. And I'm not saying that you should always, um, think about what am I going to get back?

But I do think, [: 00:41:00

And I was. I was looking in their live and I was looking, calculating myself, and I was thinking, Well, I've only got about a thousand left, what am I going to do with my thousand weeks? But it's not so much, what am I going to get back in a selfish, horrible way? It is, you have to get something. Because what you don't want, imagine you'd been invited to a party and you say yes to them because you don't want to say no, but you don't really want to go.

y don't want to be there. So [: 00:42:00

Tazmin: Um, I always wanted to ask you a question. We ask all of our guests this, on a broader topic, what's the best bit of career advice that you've been given?

Jo: The best bit of career advice I've been given. Is actually to, to have a mentor, you know, it took me a while to, to get one. Um, my dad was my mentor for a long time, but he's a bit too, I suppose, biased because he's a corporate, corporate guy. And I'm self employed or run my own business. Um, so the mentorship, one, helped me a lot because there was, um, one element of it that I had never thought about.

ngths. And, you know, It's a [: 00:43:00

So it's a different way of looking at yourself because when you were probably younger people have said oh you're not very good at this you need to improve whereas the CliftonStrengths is different. It says oh you're naturally good at these areas. I'm now going to help you improve on this, and this is going to become your talent, and with that, your confidence grows.

e can people find you online?[: 00:44:00

Jo: They can find me at SEO JoBlogs on Twitter, or I am in Jay Turnbull on LinkedIn. I'm also on my own website, SEO JoBlogs, but Twitter is, Twitter is the best. Okay, good, because everyone's got their own preferred platform. So that was going to be my next question, which is the best way, but Twitter, you say, yeah, well, yeah, I do say Twitter.

But then, of course, all these things happening in the news recently, you know, you can find me on LinkedIn, Jay Turnbull, there's not that many of us. Okay, all right. Thank you so much for being our guest today. It's been a great conversation, lots of great advice. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me and thank you to you and Sarah for running this, um, uh, running this podcast.

rson and, uh, I look forward [: 00:45:00